Perhaps I should soften my position on this. These are ideas-in-progress, and I appreciate your taking the time to offer feedback and counterpoints.

I think our current economy privileges specialists over generalists. But the current state of Toronto’s theatre scene seems to require a generalist’s approach. I think it puts us at odds with contemporary business models. I’m interested in learning more about how to attract business specialists to work in independent theatre.

My statement about artists being bad with numbers is obviously a sweeping generalization. But it’s based on my experience with arts education and anecdotal experience with artists and artist-run collectives. There rarely seems to be anyone driving the business end of the bus – or no one dedicated to that, anyway. I think it’s an oversight we allow ourselves to make because we have (as a group) bought into a false dichotomy between business and art.

As for community. I’m not suggesting that we abandon a sense of community, or give up the benefits of community, but I think it’s worthwhile asking ourselves what we mean when we call it a “theatre community.” What is included under that umbrella? And, perhaps more important, what’s excluded?

It’s the same problem Toronto’s gay community has been having. Does a “gay community” include gay men? What kind of gay men? Women? Trans? Bisexuals? Are there ethno-cultural assumptions being made? Class distinctions being made?

The question I’m asking is this: Is Toronto’s independent theatre community making assumptions about itself that are excluding people who might otherwise have very important contributions to make?

Ian

ian, i have to differ with your POV on us being a not being a “community”. there’s no way praxis could have put on Steel without being part of a community. we were donated practically everything we needed to transform a large room into a theatre by other like-minded and friendly co-practitioners. That hippy dippy shit paid off in a real dollars and cents economic way.

It’s that as a director and maker of theatre, I could do that better (more rigorously) were I not spending so much time and energy looking at spreadsheets or writing press releases or making all the phone calls and work involved in producing.

This really seems to be a pressing issue - since I believe that there is a generation shift coming and it needs producers to create the space for artists to make work good enough to be worthy of that shift.

And Jon is right - it’s not just about cash - it’s about time and care (both of which cash can rent, but aren’t exclusive) - a desire to make sure the work gets done and drive to make it. I think often of the creation story told by DaDa Kamera (of Sherry overhearing Daniel M saying he was going to give up cause he was tired of producing and her deciding that shouldn’t happen) - I wonder if that happens now, or if we’ve become so “career” minded that the admin grads intern at some large theatre, and then get an entry level job there, and then move up the ladder- that there is a distance created by the economic models between the admin and the passion for the art (and especially the cutting edge of contemporary work)

And of cource Bridget is right - she could be making better money for less work in almost any field (please, for the love of god don’t) - but so could I, so could most of us. Theatre is a terrible career choice. But there are other things that matter, and I feel we need to articulate that more often.

and also of course - instead of writing this, I should be doing rehearsal prep for my fringe show, or at least follow up emails with presenters…

It’s great to see people, like yourself, who’ve been able to marry a passion for theatre with dollars-and-cents realism.

And I agree with both Jon’s and your point that there’s a puzzling lack of business-minded folks in the theatre community. So, how do we solve the problem? Do we train people from within our community? Do we modify our offering to attract more business-orientated players? Or do we outsource the work to consultants? Is that an investment we need to make?

Artists just don’t seem that good with numbers . . . there are exceptions, of course. But, heck, even our education system emphasizes a dichotomy between business and art (by narrowly streaming scholastic disciplines, for example, and allowing no conceptual crossover between visual art and, say, math).

So not only is there a lack of business-oriented professionals is the theatre community, but “theatre artists” are suffering from systemic exclusion from basic business models and education.

Maybe we need to stop calling it a “theatre community”, which suggests we’re all in it to grow tomatoes for the greater good, and find a phrasing that’s inclusive of business theories and methods.

Thoughts?

Ian

P.S. I’m all for tomatoes for the greater good, I just think we might need to toughen up our language so we don’t present like we’re all part of some flower-power hippie commune. “Theatre community” - anyone got a better phrase?

“So you end up with jack-of-all-trades theatre artists trying to do quality work while juggling a million tasks they haven’t been properly trained to execute.”

This is so true and such a dangerous trend I see taking root in our community. This is not the fault of ‘theatre artists’ themselves but so strongly indicative of the lack of trained personnel who have a through knowledge specifically of numbers, who can balance the books properly and can plan accordingly for the future. Without these trained people, the theatre artist themselves (whether they enjoy it or not) must take on the brunt of such planning and must divert some of their attention away from the artistic process in order to ensure that the bills are paid.

When you consider how major “operational” funding agencies such as the Toronto Arts Council, Ontario Arts Council, Cnd. Heritage etc. have shifted to three year multi-funding cycles, it is important now (more so than ever I think) for theatre groups to find producers who can work with artistic staff to develop and marry long term artistic vision with long term fiscal soundness and accountability.

I think money does play a huge role in it all. For example, my bookkeeping duties are only a small fraction of the producing work I do at the Fringe and it’s disheartening to know that in the for-profit world, this skill alone could garner me an annual salary that is comparable to my wage at the Fringe. Factor in all of the additional skills (i.e., event planning, marketing, HR) and I could score myself a very comfortable gig outside the theatre.

The scarcity of producers in the theatre scene speaks to a larger problem we’re having - which is our collective inability to attract people outside of the rather narrow definition of “theatre artist”.

Where are the accountants, producers, PR and marketing folks, business administrators, lawyers? Not running theatre companies, that’s where. So you end up with jack-of-all-trades theatre artists trying to do quality work while juggling a million tasks they haven’t been properly trained to execute. It’s a shame. I’m not decrying a lack of resources. Just puzzled, i guess, about why we can’t attract different kinds of professionals to our industry.

It’s got to be about more than just money.